While you emailed your response to me personally, I feel that it's a discussion that started openly and should continue there.

As regards those who use IMC's services and IMC itself, yours sounds too much like a U.S. love it or leave it mentality. It's nothing personal with why I can't get involved with IMC; it's just that I don't have time, plus for myself I don't need to be part of a group where I feel that I'd be providing them with diversity. Nor where, if your attitude is any indication, any dissent is not tolerated.

Why does Salim need to talk with you about anything? He's not part of IMC nor does he use the front room at all. IMC evicted the Autonomous Collective which was a group that I was a part of that was doing a lot of really good things. Instead of reaching a reasonable compromise, say taking actions to resolve specific problems, your group chose instead to completely destroy the group. When I got out of jail, everything that I had worked for in the past six months was gone. I had nothing. Why does Salim need to say hi to you? Why do you need any attention from him? What really is the issue here? IMC took away everything I had and now it seems like it's happening again.

All I have in the world is my music. I use my music like a weapon against the oppression I witness and get subjected to. I do songs about my separation anxiety, my internalized racism and it's in a way which is personal but I trust speaks to a lot of other people. I believe that change starts from within and its not always an us-them dynamic, and that we are all complicit with classism, patriarchy and white supremacy. I go after things in a way that resembles focussing on a specific issue, or outwardly, sometimes also, but I feel that doing that too often distorts self-accountability.

While I highly value what IMC provides, the majority of it seems to arrive from a specific viewpoint. While I understand a lot of what is being provided, I don't deeply empathize with the information. At its worst, the disparity between what is focussed on and what is left out to me feels as if it's complicit with the larger erasure of a lot of people's lives and experiences in present-day San Francisco. And I don't necessarily feel that it is my personal responsibility to help ya'll resolve out that particular issue. My sharing a space with you and occasionally speaking when I get a chance is enough and unfortunately all I can spare. I think it was important for me to mention once or twice that there were a few things that I didn't see any attention being paid to on IMC, but I'm not about to take up the torch and fight for their representation on your website when I can do that myself on my own.

I was unaware that you were such a fan of what I do. While it appears to be my 'personal' music, how is that any different than the video that you work on and put on your site? You must have noticed me on a number of occasions working with a lot of other people. While it all mostly ends up on a site that has my name on it, it comes from a lot of different places and involves a lot of the issues IMC addresses on their site and beyond. There seems to be a great deal of unwillingness that I've observed consistently with IMC (or maybe it's just individuals in the group) to show solidarity with others that share common goals in the community. Why would you want to evict a group that was trying to help get activists off the grid? Why would you want to trip on someone who makes music like Reginald who comes in occasionally to do something on Friendster on a computer which would otherwise sit around in a destitute and low-income neighborhood unused? Why would you be concerned if someone who is working to try to get a hiring hall started doesn't feel like acknowledging you when they go to their office? I pass by white people all the time on the street who don't acknowledge me for shit...and I'm the fuckin' bomb. Fuck that.

The same could be said for the music which Reginald produces. Also I was wondering how you came to the conclusion that Reginald disliked what IMC does? Did he express that to you? And how does what Salim does reflect on me? We are all independent people using the media space, with the exception of Salim who only uses the hallway and doors. Wasn't this intended to be a public-use space? Is it only certain people who get to use it?

None of us would probably be using the space if they didn't really have to, and it sits empty so much of the time...where is the sense in that?

Here's the lyric's from Reginald's band "Mutilate Mannequins" that seems illuminate the many dynamics in our discussion here, from a song called 'Lordship and Bondage':

The lord as self-consciousness exists for himself
But only in as much as their dependence to will
The bondsman as consciousness exists for the lord
This interdependence breeds resentment


The truth of the independent consciousness
Is accordingly the servile consciousness of the bondsman


It must supercede to proceed
Lordship and bondage
Super-cession of the other to return to self
Lordship and bondage
Subjugation is the practice recognition kept away
Lordship and bondage


The bondsman as consciousness exists for the lord
Yet through this existence he achieves independence
The lord as self-consciousness exists for himself
But only in as much as their dependence to will


The truth of the independent consciousness
Is in fact the dependent dominance of the lord


It must supercede to proceed
Lordship and bondage
Super-cession of the other to return to self
Lordship and bondage
Subjugation is the practice recognition kept away
Lordship and bondage
Subjugation is the practice
Subjugation is the practice


I don't really need to use anything up front other than Cool Edit Pro to make mp3s. I don't mind using the so-called public space up front at all, to say record others or have my equipment lying around. To my understanding, it was supposed to function as a public space, or some sort of a media lab. But it can go on and sit unused all day for all I care. It kind of reminds me of an empty loft. Why are there so many empty spaces and unused resources in San Francisco? What is everbody scared of? But something you said, about things being 'personal', in the sense of what it is that one gets involved with in the usage of the space... makes me wonder if that is also indicative of the viewpoint of others in IMC or not...because I can see the work I do and topics I address being shared by a lot of people...plus I have a very personal investment in it...I take it personally...but is that counter to the objective journalism you seem to be implying that you do?

It takes a certain kind of person to actually want to use the resources here in the right way. What seems to be going on is that you feel entitled to obstruct people from doing what they feel that they need to do. I tons of people who could be using the software in this space, and who don't know it even exists, and that's the ultimate shame. I don't see anything proud at all in that. Particularly seeing how hard it is, for someone to even pull through and have the dedication to make that a priority and then to have it made unavailable disgusts me. I have a friend who could really make good use of some of the audio resources and software in the lab. Why is there so much criteria being stacked around how it's being used or whether or not if it's being used by someone we really like or not? Isn't the way in which IMC the site works is that you don't really need to come into the lab to put a story on it? What the fuck is the lab for? Why is the password taped to the top of the monitor? Why do you have your Mac here if you're going to be going through so much anxiety around anyone using it? I think it's very limited and kind of scary that the only time the lab is being put to 'good use' in your estimation is in the coverage of a demo that hardly addresses the day-to-day struggles of people living in SF. Or in the Mission District. Or on this street. Where are the people marching against the police repression in this area people go through day-to-day? Who on IMC is reporting about it? Does anyone care?

I look around at the posters on the wall. You've removed my friend Reginald's flyer but you keep up a flyer by Zion-I. Does Zion-I register as more community-conscious to you than Reginald's work? Is it more real? More street and more gritty? Then there's all this French shit. In the entire time that I've been here I've never encounter anyone from France or someone speaking French to me. Do we care more about France than someone in our own city? Does anyone in IMC personally know someone from Zion-I? Do people from Zion-I use the space? Does the girl from France use the space?

I've found a lot of energy all of sudden, which will explain the length of this email. But I'm going to do you the rare favor of providing you with some information with why focussing on Iraq is usually code for something else. You claim that the space was put to the best use during the Iraq stuff. Tons of people rally around these anti-war issues. People walk around everyday feeling bad about themselves and the state of everything around them, but most encounter barriers to the realization that the reason why the world is in such a horrible state is largely in part the direct result of the way in which we lead our lives. One horrible thing which appears in front of everyone is the issue of war. There's not much you can do directly to affect whether or not if some country wants to bomb another on. But there is a great deal a person can do immediately wherever they are to change things. It's just really really hard. It's easier to focus on something that you have a smaller change of stopping, and it allows you to get preoccupied from doing the other thing which is far more difficult and immediate and close to you. It's easier for IMC to provide you with first-rate anti-war coverage than to run a community computer lab. Why is that? How is that consistent with the oppressive dynamics of class, gender and race on the street where the Redstone Bldg resides? What then becomes a true form of resistance?

If there was anything that I'd be willing to do with IMC it'd be to volunteer to man the front room computer lab. I don't know a great deal about every aspect of all the programs, but I know a bit and have helped my friends use some of the stuff here. I know enough to run my own website which has mp3's graphics and all kinds of other shit on it.

I also feel that Mark's proposal for the suite is reasonable and I support it fully.



-------Original Message-------
> From: Jeff Taylor
> Subject: Re: [Suite 216] Re: Fwd: RE: re: [Suite 216] Autonomous Manipulative
> Sent: 26 Sep 2003 08:00:56
>

> Ralowe, it is Jeff here, who by now, you are probably
> really confused about ... doesn't matter ... I just
> wanted you to know what set me off, and it was a
> report from Steve O. of IWW about what Salim was going
> around and saying about us. Also, whatever Salim is
> working on now (and he actually spoke to me recently)
> anyway, he wouldn't even return a simple "hi" for a
> long time after his mysterious and unannounced return
> to our suite. And, I did pick up some hostility from
> his body language and so forth. Still, I would have
> said nothing about any of this, until I heard some of
> the shit that was being spoken about the people in
> this suite. So, basically, I got pissed and then, I
> started to think about all of this.
>

> So, I let an angry email fly one night to a list, and
> I still don't know if I really regret it or not -
> since a lot of people were expressing unhappiness to
> me, but then, never saying anything about it to anyone
> else. So, I let it fly.
>

> Also, if you want to make music, I think that is
> great, but, where are you proposing to make your
> personal music? Does the answer to that question
> always have to exclusively be in the public area of
> the SF.IMC space? Is that what got worked out when
> whoever it was (maybe Salim) said they were committed
> to keeping the IWW presence going here in the suite?
> "We are going to rent one office and constantly be
> using the front space for personal music production?
> ... Is that cool? ..." I mean, I didn't really care
> about your being all up the front room, using various
> machines and leaving music equipment around ... I
> really didn't care, until I started sensing a bad vibe
> from Salim and also started to figure out that many
> people have just bailed out of here. So, I had to ask
> myself some questions. And, now that you have formally
> admitted that you really don't want to be a part of
> the IMC, maybe it is better to think of yourself as a
> business tenant here - renting the one room with Salim
> and others to do whatever you will, but the generous
> use of the IMC machines and infrastructure, why should
> that continue, if you don't really want to be a part
> of the organization? I mean, my beef at this point is,
> if people don't like something and they feel strongly
> enough to go around and talk about how the politics
> are all screwed up and everyone is all too priveledged
> for them and so forth, then, why don't they leave and
> go on about their business with groups that are less
> plagued by this overwhelming aura of white priveledge?
> I don't understand this habit of whining about shit
> and then sticking around and hanging out in the space
> more of the time than the people who actually like
> working with whatever group whose suite they are in.
> Really, why hang around so much in a place whose
> politics you disagree with? Why not just go on about
> your business, in a positive sense, with people you do
> like and want to be a part of, contribute stuff to and
> so forth? The front room in the suite is mainly about
> the SF.IMC now. Ian and Mark B., and others actually
> work to raise resources for the place, to keep the
> computers on the network and so forth. This can be
> flexible and different uses can morph around .. but
> why should people who regard the IMC in such a bad
> light, be so present in the space all the time?
>

> This front room was really put to the use that Mark L.
> and myself really envisioned for it (all those years
> ago, when we first became tenants here in what was
> then, a wobbly suite, they gave up responsibility for
> the suite long ago and when Deke left, very little
> actualy IWW activity has gone on in here) - But,
> anyway, during the days of March 20 and the advertised
> invasion of Iraq, the place was put to good use. The
> suite was humming with volunteer media activists and a
> lot of kick ass things were happening. Today, I had
> some students in here ... and, soon, I'm doing a
> skillshare with a woman who also does tons of free
> work for the community. So, I want to know that if I
> bring some students in here, or if Sunny wants to do a
> radio workshop in the space, or whatever, that we are
> not feeling like, "oh no, there is the guy who has
> decided that this month he is not talking to us, but
> prefers to communicate his discontent with us by
> slamming doors and talking shit behind our back ... "
> You see, it is not very comfortable. So, I don't know,
> I'm sick of whiners, and leftist brat kids who
> complain about something they have contributed less to
> than many that they complain about. That is it. That's
> what got me going. So, now you know.
>

> As for Reginold, I like his music and what he does,
> I'm sorry to have offended him and to jump to
> conclusions about his printing out the black flyers
> here. That was a mistake ... Although, with all that
> has gone on and been said, now I'm wondering ...
> basically, are the people that are regularly making
> use of the SF.IMC computer lab also harboring ill
> feelings about the IMC and regarding the space as a
> space that they are simply entitled to use - even
> though they have overall disdain for the group whose
> suite they are in? If this is the case, it makes me
> uncomfortable and I don't have any problem saying
> that. Are people taking the space for granted and
> where are the people who sometimes do something that
> doesn't always revolve around themselves or their
> personal art? In regards to printing, maybe we can
> come up with some way for people who do print in here
> to help us sustain that activity - at this point, I'm
> sure that is beyond your concern.
>

> Anyway, now you know that I am a little pissed and you
> know why. You may think it's all bullshit, or you may
> not care - either way, I'm about through with this
> topic - I will make some specific proposals at the
> next suite meeting.
>

> --- r A l O w E . . .
> wrote:
> > This discussion confuses me. Is there a point to
> > it?
> >

> > If you were going to decide upon any rules inasfaras
> > interpersonal conduct, would it include how the
> > suite conducts this list serve?
> >

> > I'd like to say something in defense to my friend,
> > but as the complaint or purpose of this thread is so
> > unfocussed, perhaps the strongest defense would be
> > to declare that there's really nothing to be said in
> > response to it.
> >
> > To my knowledge all that Salim has been doing since
> > he got back is working on some net stuff and trying
> > to organize. Please let me know if this is not the
> > case.
> >

> > Reginald would like for you to know that while he
> > has been in fact using our many many computers for
> > Friendster that he in fact did not print his
> > all-black fliers here. They were made at Kinko's.
> > He paid for them. I'm curious how what Reginald
> > does has to do with Salim? They barely know each
> > other. Reginald is my friend and he says he won't
> > come back to the suite if it's going to be a problem
> > for people. My problem is that I don't know what
> > use can be made of an empty computer lab unless
> > you're lookin for something cool to blow up. :)
> >

> > Maybe I shouldn't make passing jokes about blowing
> > things up. :)

> > > > (I suspect that other people who have passed through
> > this suite might, though. But whatever.)
> >

> > I don't want to be part of IMC. While I think we
> > may agree on some main bigger issues, I think that
> > there are other nuances between mine and others'
> > different experiences which I don't have the
> > personal wherewithal to want to reconcile. Nor
> > would I see myself benefitting from it. Maybe I'm
> > flawed.
> >

> > All I want to do is work on music. If my doing this
> > becomes a problem please let me know so we can reach
> > some civilized agreement.
> >
> > Please don't attack me. It will not be tolerated.
> >
> > I apologize for writing too much, or if you don't
> > see where I'm coming from.
> >

> >
> > Love,
> > Ralowe
> >

> > ---P.S. Thanks for all the funny emails.
> > Fortunately this account has no inbox size
> > restrictions.
> >
> >


> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> > > From: a. mark liiv
> >

> > > Subject: Fwd: RE: re: [Suite 216] Autonomous
> > Manipulative
> > > Sent: 24 Sep 2003 22:36:20
> > >
> > > >Delivered-To:
> > m1750715@willum.dreamhost.com
> > > >From:
> > "video@collisioncourse.com"
> > > >Date: 24 Sep 2003 12:00:01 PDT
> > > >Reply-To: video@collisioncourse.com

> > > >Subject: RE: re: [Suite 216] Autonomous
> > Manipulative
> > > >

> > > >hi all,

> > > >
> > > >maybe i should weigh in on this as i'm
> > going to be gone much of the
> > > >next 15 days. i personally think salim
> > is colder than the black
> > > >stone statue of the banker's heart up
> > on kearney street, and
> > > >probably the coldest to have crossed
> > the suite 216 threshold in
> > > >ages. i also have seen nothing that
> > balances or potentially
> > > >balances the deeply frozen personality
> > with positive atrtributes.
> > > >in other words, he's not my type nor
> > that of anyone else around the
> > > >suite, apparently.
> > > >

> > > >but i wonder if that, in itself, is the
> > grounds for expulsion--i.e.,
> > > >something we could turn into a required
> > code of conduct or among a
> > > >set of rules. and i wonder what is the
> > related consideration of
> > > >not just AC (which, BTW, is already
> > gone) but of IWW. if expulsion
> > > >advocates can answer these questions
> > well, i have no problems with
> > > >the therefores that follow.
> > > >

> > > >doug > > > >
> > > >----
--- Original Message -------
> > > >On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:21:59 +0200 a.
> > mark liiv wrote:
> > > >

> > > >hi, sorry i haven't written a proposal
> > yet, it sounds weird over in
> > > >
> > > >the suite now, this is different than
> > it used to be, only since last
> > > >
> > > >time salim was around. i will work on
> > proposal asap - won't be a big
> > > >
> > > >deal i just need space to focus. back
> > late this week.
> > > >

> > > >cheers,
> > > >
> > > >mark
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >ps i really don't want salim around the
> > suite, i think he's taking
> > > >

> > > >advantage of us and think he should be
> > formally kicked out.
> > > > > > > >






> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Suite 216] Autonomous Manipulative
> > > >
> > > >Jeff Taylor jefftaylor590z@yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > > >

> >http://lists.linefeed.org/mailman/private/suite216/2003-September/000396.html
> > > > > > > >

> > > >
> > > >Previous message: [Suite 216] Colleen
> > Nagle / in suite 216
> > > >
> > > >Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ]
> > [ subject ] [ author ]
> > > >

> > > >Hello everyone ... Mark L. (of
> > Whispered media) wrote
> > > >

> > > >an email about the AC and the ongoing
> > bad vibes with
> > > >

> > > >Salim. Personally, I think we should
> > ask the AC to
> > > >
> > > >leave and let more upbeat and
> > productive tennants into
> > > >
> > > >the suite ... Salim will go around and
> > talk BS, but
> > > >
> > > >who really cares? The guy has been so
> > divisive so many > > > >
> > > >times ... ... so, how do we have some
> > kind of
> > > >
> > > >boundries and defenition for what goes
> > around here.
> > > >
> > > >i.e. we all do personal things at times
> > but, is it
> > > >
> > > >always the prime reason for our being
> > in the suite? Do
> > > >
> > > >people like Reginold, (prints all black
> > flyers for his > > > >
> > > >self-centered act "Mutilated
> > Maniquens" and really
> > > >
> > > >just needs access to friendster) - do
> > they ever give
> > > >
> > > >anything back? Or do they just use as
> > many
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> _______
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-------Original Message-------